AICC data head: ‘TN Cong cadre want more seats, power share… can DMK alliance win without Cong vote share?’

In an interview with The Indian Express, Chakravarty, who also heads the AICC’s data analytics department, speaks on the row, the aspirations of state Congress workers, his party’s ties with the DMK and his “surprise” meeting with TVK chief Vijay. Excerpts: Was there anything factually wrong in what I said? I have made four points. It is all taken from the RBI’s state finances report. The fiscal situation of states broadly, whether it is Bihar or Karnataka or Maharashtra – I have always made comments on it. I have written articles. So when the issue of Tamil Nadu’s debt came up, the trends of debt rising was very stark that the RBI put out. It has nothing to do with elections. We have talked about Bihar’s debt during elections. We have talked about other states’ debts during non-election periods. So elections have nothing to do with this.

You are absolutely right. It is a testament to the Congress party’s liberal values and the culture that the leadership of Mr Rahul Gandhi promotes within the Congress. Not just me, Mr Chidambaram and others have also voiced concerns, be it Old Pension Scheme or reckless spending on welfare.

Not once have our party leadership said anything. If we say anything factually wrong, yes, then they will take objection to it. But otherwise, our party leadership has been extremely liberal and accommodative in providing that freedom. And that’s the Congress’s liberal DNA.

It’s actually both interesting and amusing for supposedly an INDIA alliance government to react in this manner. It is actually quite laughable that some of our Tamil Nadu allies said that I should be expelled for pointing out debt levels from an RBI report. This shows how intolerant some of these parties are. I think they would do well to learn from the liberal, tolerant values of Mr Gandhi’s leadership.

The second thing I want to point out is, if you look at my post carefully, it talks about a period from 2010 to 2025. Fifteen years of trend is what I showed. This (DMK-led) government has been there for four years. Why is it assumed that it was a comment only on this government?

Did I ever say Tamil Nadu is a bad performing state? The question in discussion was debt. I commented merely on debt. What I was comparing was trends from 2010 to 2025. You can take any measure. For example, if you say debt to GDP, which is not an absolute number, it’s a percentage, the data from the same report shows that in 2010, debt to GDP for Tamil Nadu and Karnataka were almost the same. In 2025, debt to GDP for Tamil Nadu is 30%, whereas for Karnataka, it’s 22% only. You can take Tamil Nadu and Maharashtra. Maharashtra’s debt to GDP was higher than Tamil Nadu in 2010. In 2025, it is half of Tamil Nadu’s debt to GDP.

In my post, there are three or four points I mentioned. One is the trend of rising debt. I have also said servicing, interest burden. Interest burden of Tamil Nadu is the third highest, as per the RBI report, after Punjab and Haryana. I have talked about servicing, I have talked about debt to GDP. Debt is a stock variable and GDP is a flow variable in economic parlance. So one has to be carefully in using this measure across states. I said Tamil Nadu is one of the few large states where debt to GDP ratio has not fallen below Covid levels. The one positive of all this noise about my post is that the average youth in Tamil Nadu is now aware of the issue of debt. I had some boys come up to me in the streets of Chennai and ask me questions like if we have to pay interest on this debt. It is good for the average voter to know these issues.

Nothing from Delhi. From Tamil Nadu, there are a few who obviously owe their entire politics to the DMK. And what’s really amusing is when me or Mr Chidambaram or others have made some comments where we are in disagreement with our own party or our own government in other states, none of the Congress people have really come out aggressively. But funnily, in Tamil Nadu, in this case, quite a few Congress MPs and the local leaders somehow thought they were all public finance economists and started to comment on this. My post was not a commentary on the Congress government, first of all. So it just exposes how some of these TN Congress leaders are so heavily dependent on DMK for their very political existence.

I will not comment anything about the meeting with Mr Vijay. The only thing that I will say as far as the Tamil Nadu alliance situation is concerned is our stand – this is the Tamil Nadu Congress cadre’s demand, which is that they want greater number of opportunities… in terms of seats. They want a share in power. And they want greater respect. After all, the Congress party in Tamil Nadu has been out of power for the last 60 years and for various reasons. This time, there is a very strong demand from the cadre – I am not so sure about others whose politics may be dependent on the DMK – but more than 75% of the cadre are clear in the sense that they want an opportunity to contest, which means a greater number of seats. They want a share in power. After all, we don’t understand why the Congress should not be part of the government in Tamil Nadu. The Congress was part of our alliance governments in Maharashtra and Bihar, and is part of the government in Jharkhand. What is so unique about Tamil Nadu? The DMK was a part of the UPA government in Delhi. If there are some ministers from the Congress in the government, that will help our party to grow. Perhaps, had there been an alliance government in TN, we could have helped the DMK manage its debt better. So, the Congress cadre’s demand now is that we have waited for far too long, 60 years, it is now time for us to ask for this.

Those decisions will be taken by the Congress leadership. On the argument that the party is a fringe player, this is like saying that the school that you go to is extremely bad where they didn’t teach the students well, and then you turn around and say, but you don’t know anything, your knowledge is zero and why should I put you into college? This is completely bizarre. We have not let the party grow. So my simple question is, what about the Congress’s vote share? You remove the Congress’s vote share and let us see whether the alliance can come to power? It is very clear in Tamil Nadu, a large section of voters want a party that is opposed to the BJP politics. And these voters know that the Congress is the only trusted party that will oppose the BJP in whatever situation. And they will vote wherever the Congress goes. So it is the votes that you should see, not the seats. Because don’t forget, DMK MLAs are also getting elected using Congress votes.

No. I don’t want to discuss anything about the meeting (with Vijay). All we are saying is the Congress cadre’s demand is that whichever party is willing to accommodate these demands is who our natural partner should be.

I don’t understand why such a big deal is made out of one meeting. Don’t you think people in Delhi meet each other all the time?

The UP comparison was not for any other reason except to say that UP is so badly governed, that it is a bit sad that Tamil Nadu’s absolute debt level is more than UP too, especially since in 2010 UP had more than double its amount of debt. And even if we compare debt to GDP, UP is a state with the second highest amount of debt in the country. Tamil Nadu is number one and UP is number two, as per the RBI’s report for the year ending March 2025. That is the only reason. Perhaps this could have been misconstrued. I admit that I only thought technically in this aspect, and not politically, but it’s quite silly and immature to say I am some Sanghi in disguise because I compared TN to UP.